Thread 1b
Copied from re:thinking Discussion Board
Topic: Age of the Earth
website: http://server5.ezboard.com/brethinkingsbulletinboard
This compilation provided by Hill Roberts.
No edits of any content were performed.
Some of the sequence of posts were rearranged for clarity.
Some posts to this discussion are contained in other threads within
these archives.
[HRobLIB@aol.com]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DMathews
11/9/99 9:52:47 pm
Obstinate, Ignorant & Dishonest People
Dear Brother Turner,
I must voice strong disagreement with your statement: "You operate
under the illusion that someone who disagrees with you is either ignorant
of the data, or just dishonestly obstinate. My admission that I believed
the continents are drifting, should have been some clue that I am not totally
ignorant of the subject. Another clue should have been my admission to
having been a theistic evolutionist at one time."
At no point in my posts have I ever stated, indicated, implied or suggested
that people who disagree with me are ignorant, obstinate or dishonest.
When I engage in discussions, I am not concerned about any virtues
or flaws in the character of any other participant in the discussion. I
would never suggest that anyone is ignorant, even if they were ignorant,
nor would I ever claim that I was not ignorant, even if I possessed knowledge.
I presented evidence to you because you requested that I do so. Since
I complied with your request, there is no justification for your complaint.
From the standpoint of knowledge, ignorance and truth, you should read
my self-evaluation found on my home page(http://www.geocities.com/dmathew1).
Read the article titled "Does David Mathews Teach the Truth?" and "On My
Ignorance."
Thanks,
David Mathews
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allanita
11/9/99 11:04:35 pm
Re: Obstinate, Ignorant & Dishonest People
David,
It was an observation I had made earlier based on your statement about
the earth "is" billions of years old, a statement I thought to be a bold
assertion. Bold in that it argues that the question of the age of the earth
is not open to discussion. I made an observation based on the implications
of what you were saying as it reflected on those who disagree with you
on this subject. If there are other conclusions that can be drawn from
your assertion, I'd be happy to entertain them. No, you never verbalized
the words I used, and I would not expect you to, as I am sure you are too
nice a man to do so. My pointing this out is simply a rhetorical device
that is permitted to emphasize the ramifications of your assertion. It
"is" the conclusion, and I think a necessary one, that a reasonable man
would draw from your assertion.
I hope you and Hill are not going to get into that "I never said that,
therefore, you are misrepresenting me" rigamarole that so many invoke today.
Why don't you just accept the force of your "is" assertion, no matter how
unpleasant I've made it sound? After all, you are the one who boldly wrote,
"The world's history, as revealed in both small and large-scale geological
structures, is billions of years old." If words mean anything, then I am
certainly justified in saying that you must believe that someone who disagrees
with you on the age of the earth is either ignorant of the data, or just
dishonestly obstinate. How, then, can you say that you did not indicate,
imply or suggest it?
Sincerely,
Allan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DMathews
11/10/99 7:14:01 am
Re: Obstinate, Ignorant & Dishonest People
Dear Brother Turner,
I must voice strong disagreement with your statement: "If words mean
anything, then I am certainly justified in saying that you must believe
that someone who disagrees with you on the age of the earth is either ignorant
of the data, or just dishonestly obstinate. How, then, can you say that
you did not indicate, imply or suggest it?"
When I engage in arguments, I make no assumptions about the character
of anyone else involved in the discussion. I would never even imagine or
speculate to myself about the ignorance of anyone else, nor entertain any
accusations against the character of anyone else. For that reason, it is
quite impossible for me to say that you or anyone else is either ignorant
or dishonest.
This is not to suggest that I would not consider anyone ignorant. From
my own conversations with other people of all faiths and backgrounds, it
is apparent that everyone is ignorant to some degree, and humanity as a
whole is also ignorant. I am ingorant as well.
Any unstated accusation of your ignorance would coincide with the fact
of your ignorance, but your possession of ignorance does not differ in
degree from my own ignorance.
Any unstated accusation of dishonesty would coincide with any degree
of dishonesty that you may possess, but I would never imagine that you
are more or less dishonest that I am.
Under what condition can I make any accusation against you or your
character? I have not, will not and can not do so.
Please dispense with the thought that I have made any comments about
your character, or that I am entertaining these thoughts in my mind. The
least of my concerns in any discussion of truth is the character of anyone
else involved in the discussion. Character is absolutely irrelevant to
the age of the Universe question.
Thanks,
David Mathews
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allanita
11/10/99 9:45:46 am
Re: Obstinate, Ignorant & Dishonest People
Okay, David, I'm getting the picture. I ought not to be surprised that
a bold asserter would also be a strong objector. As I am assuming you are
an honest person, I must take you at your word that you did not indicate,
imply or suggest any such thing as I said, and all this in spite of what
I thought were the logical inferences of your bold assertion that world
history "is" billions of years old. Incidentally, I never felt personally
insulted or impugned by what I thought was the obvious implications of
your "is" statement. So, let me say that your disposition, as you've described
it, is certainly commendable, and I apologize for so greatly offending
you. I hope this is acceptable to you.
Sincerely,
Allan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DMathews
11/10/99 1:21:24 pm
Re: Obstinate, Ignorant & Dishonest People
Hello Brother Turner,
Thanks very much for understanding my objections to inferences regarding
my comments, especially as they would relate to inferences regarding my
opinion of other people's character.
David
Mathews
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
End Thread 1b
back to Thread
1